Strikes Wave Due 2012: Brian Strutton has said '‘We detect a reawakening among our private sector members of their bargaining strength.'. Claiming Britain should prepare for wave of strikes.
(Brian Strutton, the moderate national secretary of the GMB)
RMT transport union General Secretary Bob Crow has forecast that there will be a "new year of militancy and resistance."
(Brian Strutton, the moderate national secretary of the GMB)
RMT transport union General Secretary Bob Crow has forecast that there will be a "new year of militancy and resistance."
FURTHER REFERENCE: http://bit.ly/uJVPt4
Is this reasonable? Fair? Should the strikes be supported?
J.A.
Oh no. Strikes?!? You get more money if they change jobs or work harder. Why mess with other lives?
Mark Caudery
I'll be supporting the strikes. About time people stood up to the exploitation that's going on.
Richard Frazer
Does it not depend on who is striking and for what reason?
Kathy M Johnson
My support is still there as well Mark, it is way past time we stood up to all employers not just the government who should be protecting the people not exploiting them.
Richard Frazer
What if strikers’ demands are unreasonable?
Mark Caudery
For me personally Richard, nope. I'm for any peaceful demonstration of people power/civil disobedience at the moment because I'm sick of social and economic decline I've seen my whole life.
Mark Caudery
Well said Kathy!
Cecilia Fisher
According to the rabid right on here .asking to be paid is unreasonable as for working conditions forget it
Mark Caudery
Aye... They would very much like to return us to feudalism rather than advance us from failed capitalism.
Cecilia Fisher
But the I’m all right jacks .will condemn [no pun] condemn and condemn.
Mark Caudery
Kind of entertaining really. lol
Mark Caudery
In a very predictable kind of way.
Cecilia Fisher
Yes the usual suspects, will be out in all their foaming, frothing at the mouth force lol
Richard Frazer
I hate those people. . . who said that?
Richard Frazer
I will get you a tartan colour tissue Cecilia to wipe your mouth
Richard Frazer
I think it matters immensely to analyse what the protesters demands are before you choose to support or not support them
A.R.W.
I support any action which disrupts the Tory program of cuts, privatisation of essential services, erosion of working/civil rights & exploitation of the poor/sick/disabled.
Richard Frazer
What if that action bankrupts the country? You do realise that you may have destroyed peoples’ lives to get your revenge on the evil Tory's
G.M.
It's about time the unions were given some credit for standing up for the workers and people realize that the unions are just normal working folks after all!
Mark Caudery
Too late for that, Richard. Tories and their city of London chums have done huge damage to the country already.
Cecilia Fisher
mmmmmmmmm I think I’m very far from rabid right Richard you won’t see me frothing and foaming, about the irresponsible selfish holding the country to ransom strikers .NO the only unions I agree with lol
Richard Frazer
I am not opposing strike action. . . I am just saying that we should always analyse the demands before we support the strike action. What if the demands are too great?
Mark Caudery
If they're too great, the government best do a good job in negotiations.
Richard Frazer
Cecilia - They have not declared what they are doing yet. . . so how can you agree with an action that has not taken place or been called yet. That is blind faith they are calling something reasonable
Cecilia Fisher
Some see any demands as to great .as long as I’m alright jack
Richard Frazer
Just like I am not as you clearly think I would. . . blindly opposing them. They may have a point
Richard Frazer
What if. . . just if they come to an amicable settlement before strike action. Would you then say that no strike is fine? As the strike has not happened. Or would you still want the strike?
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Cecilia Fisher
Richard at no point on this thread have I mentioned you, do you see a reflection of yourself in my statements
A.R.W.
A.R.W.
What would you prefer Richard? People standing up for their rights in a peaceful, coordinated fashion or riots which will cost more, destroy lives and result in untold misery?
Richard Frazer
You are right I do not think strikes are wrong
Mark Caudery
Not sure that would be possible for me at this stage, Richard. We have a long way to go before I'll be satisfied. :D
Cecilia Fisher
Ah now you’re trying to get me to say its o.k. to strike for strikes sake .grow up Richard
Richard Frazer
Allan - Are you sure they are the only options available?
Mark Caudery
Sadly Richard, in our "democracy", protest is indeed about the only option we have to influence things.
Cecilia Fisher
And are you sure they are not, Richard
Richard Frazer
However you can see my point though. . . it you follow union strikes without analysing what they are asking for and about. If those actions are solved before they go to strike are you then blindly following the resolution to without knowledge of the outcome? So are you a follower or leader of your own ideology?
Mark Caudery
Lost me there Richard. Too many leaps of logic going on.
Richard Frazer
I influence lots of things in my local community. I personally have added over £20,000 to charity through my actions last year.
I have many contacts in the local council. I am but an individual. Imagine if everyone were activists for positive outcomes and not disruption.
Cecilia Fisher
If they are resolved before strike action, then it follows there is no strike .DOH
Richard Frazer
Blind faith in following. . . or analysising and choosing informed decisions is a summary
Richard Frazer
But at the start of this thread everyone was fully for strike action attached the above threads. However the discussions have not started yet.
So you are for strike, yet strike is not determined yet.
If there is no strike. . . are you disappointed and want to still practice civil disobedience or are you happy the government has resolved things amicable with the workers involved?
Cecilia Fisher
Imagine if employers stuck to their terms and conditions, or paid a decent wage
A.R.W.
No, negotiation is always essential - however with this lot it's a case 'we're doing it anyway' leaving unions & workers with little option but to strike. As for riots, I remember well the Poll Tax debacle where Thatcher ploughed on regardless, not listening to her own advisers, which resulted in people exploding in a violent manner.
Mark Caudery
I've already stated my opinion on that Richard. No point repeating it and spamming up the thread further.
Richard Frazer
I am not sure you have answered.
Plus I was answering Cecilia.
'If there is no strike' - You are for civil disobedience anyway?
Not sure that was an answer
'Are you for blindly following or analysing and making an informed decision?' - You said you did not understand the more substantial question in reference to waiting to understand the demands before supporting.
Mark Caudery
No point Richard, you aren't really interested in our opinions anyways. You clearly want to twist what we say to suit your own agenda.
Richard Frazer
Allan - Negotiation is a slow but crucial process. Don't forget the negotiated positions are what the strikers took in the last strikes. The decisions were made before the strike went out. So the strike achieved nothing new. Negotiation was the success of the last strike. So to say 'this lot' don't do negotiation is wrong. The strikers negotiated and accepted the numbers in front of them. Yet still went out on strike.
Cecilia Fisher
What the f are you waffling about Richard /
Richard Frazer
Don't worry Cecilia it is all interesting stuff. . . I will summarise later
Richard Frazer
I am interested you are simply avoiding every question posed because they are uncomfortable
Mark Caudery
If you say so, Richard.
Cecilia Fisher
What question that makes any sense are you asking, do I support a strike when negotiations have worked,
Cecilia Fisher
If negotiations have worked there is no need to strike
Richard Frazer
I see so you are supporting the Unions and trust the unions to make the decisions as opposed to understanding the details of their demands directly?
Cecilia Fisher
however if you are asking if I support all strikes .then on principle yes .as they are the only avenue left open in a lot of cases
L.W.
I'm with Richard on this. You have to know specifics before you can back anything. Let’s see what negotiations can reveal.
A.R.W.
Oh yes, great negotiating went on there Richard, which left the Unions no option but to go on strike because the Tories weren't for turning. And almost immediately afterwards Osborne announced 1% pay rises for the next three years - an act of revenge if I ever saw one!
Mark Caudery
lol what a farce!
Richard Frazer
I am glad you agree Lilu. . . I thought it was just me for a second
Richard Frazer
Allan - you misunderstand what happened. The negotiations were concluded, but the unions had already voted to strike so they did. There were no other demands on the table.
If the negotiations HAS NOT of concluded the strikers would not have got the original negotiated demands because they were an offer. That is how we all know they were agreed before strike.
Mark Caudery
Considering strikes happen as a result of democratic decisions, I find it difficult to imagine not supporting a strike.
Richard Frazer
Mark - Do you always agree with democratic decisions?
Mark Caudery
Strange, that's not how I remember it, Richard.
Richard Frazer
Which part?
Mark Caudery
No Richard, but I never object to them.
Mark Caudery
The whole thing.
Richard Frazer
"I support any action which disrupts the Tory program". 5 'likes' to this statement. However the Tory program is the government. Disrupting the government is costing many millions of people money, jobs and futures.
Is it right and fair to support the disruption of society without knowledge of the reasons for that disruption?
Richard Frazer
Which whole thing?
Mark Caudery
Collateral damage
Mark Caudery
Your whole account of the negotiations before the last strikes sounds false to me.
Richard Frazer
Actions 'costing many millions of people money, jobs and futures' is certainly not 'collateral damage' in my eyes. That is heartless.
Richard Fowler
I took stike action for the first time on the 30th Nov, it was a difficut decision as I didn't want to let people down with whom I provide a service, however it wasn't just because of the pensions that I took industrial action, I am very unhappy with the way that the conservatives are conducting business at peoples expense, mostly the poor an most vunerable, I felt that I needed to show my support for showing my discontent to a goverment who are streaming along regardless, there fore unless the Torys start to change tack and lisrten to people, including experts in their fields, I will be supporting strike action for the bigger picture.
Cecilia Fisher
The government is costing millions of jobs futures and money .
Mark Caudery
Now you're just exaggeration, Richard.
Mark Caudery
This is what the strikes are about for me... http://youtu.be/J0SPio6RE-s
#nov30 WHY I AM STRIKING
www.youtube.com
The Artist Taxi Driver
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Richard Frazer
Richard - Good on your mate. I like that reason to strike.
However a strike can only be called for a specific reason or reasons as it needs to be balloted.
The following strikes may not be for the right reasons. They may be for demands way beyond what is reasonable and we need to be vigilant that people are asking for fair and right amounts.
Society needs to be competitive in difficult times.
Cecilia Fisher
you do like to take it to extremes don’t you Richard the disruption of society ,is something only Tory governments do ,by the way I didn’t catch your answer to Anita ,about Thatcher letting Liverpool go in to de3cline .did you agree with Thatcher on that or not
Richard Frazer
Mark - I used direct quotes from the thread to ensure it was not exaggeration. I am being a careful as I can in this thread to avoid being accused of anything
Richard Frazer
Cecilia - If they are why add to the suffering. . . especially when negotiations were concluded.
Mark Caudery
Good idea Richard
.
Cecilia Fisher
You being accused .Richard .never lol. You are more evasive than Murdoch lol
Richard Frazer
Ahhh the other thread by Anita. . . that was such a fun thread lol
I answered the question on that thread a million times over!
Richard Fowler
Fantastic summing up by Artist taxi driver, and why I think we saw an unprecedented amount of people taking action.
Richard Frazer
http://www.badmouth.net/graphics/ateam_schultz.jpg
http://www.badmouth.net/graphics/ateam_schultz.jpg
www.badmouth.net
Mark Caudery
Glad you like it Richard F. I'm out of work at the moment so striking is no option lol but that rant of his really struck a chord with me, and many others it sees. That vid got 157,844 hits, a lot more than the guy usually gets.
N.S.
Bob Crowe always sounds like an old fashioned union leader. I think his desire is to see the Government collapse. If Mrs T, was around I think they would have clashed a long time okay.
Mick Constable
Left Foot fantasizing again then , I see, enjoy :lol
Richard Frazer
I think he is a very interesting speaker and demands more attention. I know Alan is looking at using some of his stuff as we speak (you may have given him this). However I am sad to hear you are out of work. PM me with what you are looking for. You never know I may know people who could help.
Mark Caudery
Thanks Richard. It's okay I have things in the pipeline that are fine for me to focus on.
Richard Frazer
Hope so. Keep up the search. . . I have been made redundant in the past too. It is no picnic I know. (It is part of working in the car industry)
Mark Caudery
It's a reality for most people these days. Job security is very much a thing of the past.
A.R.W.
Hahaha @Mark Caudery loves that taxi fella, I find him very amusing, and quite apart from his language, and he does have a point. Not sure I would get into a cab if he was driving though!
Mick Constable
Your spot on there Mark, the days of a job for life are inexistent and people now need to compete against others for the good jobs, which is only right
Mark Caudery
Only to a limited extent Mick, people need some security just as businesses do.
R.G.
To strike is to withdraw labour or to create such a disturbance in production as to render it useless. The UK has the mark on it already for this and where did it get them. Only if there are politicians who can take the lead from striking can it ever work. I doubt if the opposition will chance it, then the government will sweep ahead in the polls and carry with it the electorate toward an election which will give it victory...over anti-establishment troublemakers! There is no point in striking, it causes to much hardship for others who belive they are not involved. It gives credibility to the government's hardline attitude...and it sends the absolutely wrong signals abroad. The answer is for the union leaders to appear to act with responsibly and talk to the electorate...as the Opposition has subsequently failed to do. Create a demand against the government that is valid...strikes will do the opposite!
L.Z.
For me, the 'disruption' argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. Suppose the government announced that all public sector salaries were to be dropped to half the minimum wage. If the unions went on strike, there'd be just as much disruption...See more
Richard Frazer
L.Z. - I agree with that strike situation. Fair and right to go to strike for that scenario.
Richard Frazer
Russell - You are absolutely right. The union bosses should be going to the media and talking directly to the public about the issues.
They have a lot of influence and the media would lap it up.
A lot more damage can be done in a populist movement.
A.K.
The problem is the Tories cannot grasp the concept that you cannot run a country like a company...What people have learned from running a business will not enable them to run a country...
A country is not a big corporation which exist to turn a profit...Services and healthcare are people’s democratic right this is their country it does not belong to ANY government company it belongs to the people...This is what millions of people all over the world are fighting for today...We are letting this Tory government take this away from us while paying for the Middle East countries to get what they and we THINK we have got...
A country is not a big corporation which exist to turn a profit...Services and healthcare are people’s democratic right this is their country it does not belong to ANY government company it belongs to the people...This is what millions of people all over the world are fighting for today...We are letting this Tory government take this away from us while paying for the Middle East countries to get what they and we THINK we have got...
William Macdonald
Job security or the lack of it shouldn’t be a reason for employers to push worse and worse working conditions!
L.Z.
@Richard: Where should the line be drawn then?
Richard Frazer
Depends on the industry. . . what is reasonable for that industry. . . which is also why strikes should not be sweeping. Just for specific needs
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