BANKING REFORM

Banking Regulations


Mick Constable

So more regulation post the event, than Labour could ever of dreamt of achieving pre event ??

Pity, it may have helped

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16239255

William Macdonald

from the man still asking for less regulation in 2008 its a bit late!

Richard Frazer

William is right the Conservatives should stick to less regulation

William Macdonald

just not going to be lectured at by a man who when the country was falling into recession was asking for less regulation, hes a hypocrit, and anyone stupid enough to think hes come out of this without looking as such clearly wasnt paying attention when he was in opposition.

Richard Frazer

Can't argue with that (although I will give it a go in a bit after a little thought time)

Richard Frazer Right

ok. . . . no still got nothing

Adam Penny

You can argue with it, Richard. I change my mind on issues in light of new information all the time. I don't see why politicians shouldn't either. I'd be more worried if they didn't on the whole. Blithely sticking to dogma in the face of reality shows a distinct lack of intelligence.

Robin French

If you change your mind it means you were wrong before, and should show a bit of humility - has Gideon done this?

William Macdonald

no ones arguing what hes doing now is wrong, but I simply pointed out that hes a hypocrit and shouldnt be lecturing people when he himself was still calling for de-regulation as late as 2008!

Mick Constable

Its the intransigents that cause failure to move forward, ie: the left foot most of the time..

Adam Penny

C'mon, when was the last time you ever heard a politician of any party say they were wrong? It's a total faux pas in politics.

William Macdonald

and once again Mick attacks the left when they have said they AGREE with the proposals!

William Macdonald

It would be a colds day in hell but it might actually earn them a bit of respect, oh and Labour did it and Balls reiterated it today that Labour APOLOGISED for their part in a failure to regulate the banks pity Osbourne doesnt have the gonads to do the same!

Adam Penny

It wouldn't earn them any respect at all, the media would eat any that did for breakfast and the public as a whole would have zero sympathy.

I.H.

Whilst I dong like the Lib Dems you have to give credit to Vince Cable for pushing this policy through

William Macdonald

well then theres a problem I have all the respect for someone that can own up to a mistake and show how they want to change and learn from it!

Adam Penny

Completely agree with you Will, but the press doesn't work like that and by and large the press drives opinion, not the other way round.

William Macdonald

I dont agree with that we drive the press by consuming what they print the minute we stop consuming what they print is the minute they will change it

William Macdonald

but getting back to the announcement, hes a hypocrit.

And arent the plans due to be implemented in 2019 too? so they only have 8 years or 7 to play with!

Adam Penny

Legislation will be in place within this parliament. You can't expect changes of that magnitude to happen overnight.

And there's nothing hypocritical about changing direction. And Balls has only apologised because they recognise that a large chunk of the population blames them for the current problems and showing a bit of humility now can gain them sympathy and maybe get people listening again with no issues about credibility since they're out of office and the next election is a fair way off.

Adam Penny

The Tories were also banding around apologies left, right and centre for several years after the 1997 election, it's all part of the 'we understand your anger, we're ever so humble and we can change' routine.

Mick Constable

A person big enough to change his mind, is equal to 30 with head stuck up arse.

And that doesn't need Confucius the think up that one

William Macdonald

Sorry Adam but absolute and utter tosh, they apologised for what they see is their part in the lack failure of regulation, it takes a man to admit when they have been wrong clearly somethign beyond the Tories!

William Macdonald

I dont recall any apologies from the Tory party in 97 I remember a lot of recriminations and blaming and self loathign but no apologies

Adam Penny

Sorry, Will, but it's you who's talking Tosh in this instance. No politician does anything intentionally that they don't expect to benefit from.

Mick Constable

Bit late to expect then 24 years after the event

William Macdonald

Still theres changing your mind and admitting you were wrong in the first place Labour have done both the Tories clearly havent the gumption to do so

Mick Constable

And they are the only ones ???? :lol

William Macdonald

we are talking about the cock ups from 2008 Mick when they OSbourne was crowing for even less regulation.

William Macdonald

What the heck does benefit have to do with anything Adam we are talking about them having the mettle to admit to being wrong, as I said somethign Osbourne and the Tories clearly incapable of doing

Adam Penny

Alright then Will, answer me this then: If what you say is true, why has it taken Ed Balls until three years after the crash and only after they're out of office to apologise?

William Macdonald

ermmm he didnt only just apologise today you really dont pay much attention do you Adam?

Adam Penny

At no point did he or any other government minister apologise while still in office.

William Macdonald s

o?

William Macdonald

no one here claimed that

Adam Penny

So it reinforces my assertion.

William Macdonald

only partially thye didnt wait 3 years after the fact in fact Milliband apologises right at the start of this year January.

So what you said was only half truthful

William Macdonald

and Labour have done so on more than one occassion, of course wheres the Tory apology?

Adam Penny

The three years may not be accurate, but it's actually secondary. The key point is that there was no apology forthcoming in the time between the 2008 crash and the 2010 election, which underlines the fact that apologising for things that the public have kicked you out of office for is key to reengaging with the electorate and starting to reposition to beome electable once more, but is not something any politician would do while in office since it is damaging to credibility.

William Macdonald

its completely irrelevant in the context of this discussion but I understand your need to make it so.

However the fact is if you think a politician isnt credible by apologising for a mistake then you deserve the sort of politicians that will lie and obfuscate as opposed to manning up and admitting responsibility like any human should do, maybe that should be the basis for a new party, honestly at all times and the ability to apologise when they get somethign wrong!?

William Macdonald

Something the Tories would get credit for if they did now.

William Macdonald

But I wont hold my breath

Adam Penny

It's completely relevant Balls only apologised because it is politically expedient to do so.

William Macdonald

not when the whole basis for the discussion has been about apologising lol

William Macdonald

what part of that did you miss!?!

Adam Penny

Thus claiming this makes Balls somehow morally stronger than Osborne is invalid.

William Macdonald

again your inventing stuff there Adam to try and support your shaky arguement, at no point have I said Balls is morally stronger than anyone.

Adam Penny

Yes you have: You're claiming Osborne is a hypocrite, but Balls isn't because he has apologised i.e. presenting him as having more integrity. I'm pointing out to you that it's to Balls political advantage from a position of being out of office to apologise, whereas when he was in office there was no apology. If Labour were still in office, there would have been no apologies to this day.

William Macdonald

again Adam your making things up.

I didnt tie the two together, both are in fact completely seperate, I made no comment about wether or not I think Balls is a hypocrit.

Your then pointing out to me something that is completely irrelevant as I already said, and bears no relation to the discussion.

And then you add your own little bit of specualtion just for effect, you have absolutely no way of knowing what Labour would do were they still in office and to offer a suggestion is merely speculation without foundation.

Adam Penny Are you saying Balls is a hypocrite then?

William Macdonald

what difference does it make it wasnt part of the discussion.

Adam Penny

You raised it about Balls having apologised when Osborne hadn't. Why else would you raise it if not to draw a comparison?!

William Macdonald

thats you making an assumption.

Adam Penny

But then what did you raise it for if not that?

William Macdonald

I pointed out initially that I wouldnt be lectured to by a man who had still been asking for deregulation of banking as late as 2008, something the Labour party apologised for saying it hadnt been good de-regulating.

I said he was a hypocrit to now wanting to instill more strict regulation when he had in fact been calling for de-regulation whilst the country was moving into recession.

None of that is in fact a comparison but is in fact a series of statements about the subject, if you want to compare then feel free.

William Macdonald

You were the one trying to dismiss the hypocrisy as mere "change of mind"

Adam Penny

But changing policy is not hypocrisy.

William Macdonald

and I disagree I think its the height of hypocrisy, to lecture the country and the banking sector on regulation after being so stupid as to be calling for de-regulation as little as 3 years ago when we were moving into the most massive recession in 50 years.

Adam Penny

Hypocrisy is to advocate one thing while doing something inconsistent with what they're advocating. This is not what George Osborne is doing.

William Macdonald 

So advocating de-regulation and attacking Labour for regulation, then to regulate more so isnt just a tad hypocritical!?!

lol

Adam Penny

There was no advocation of further deregulation after the 2008 crash by anybody. Nor could they have been attacking Labour for it before the 2008 crash because Labour were not proposing any regulation of the banking sector before the crash.

William Macdonald

So your denying that the Tories advocated de-regulation?

And denying they attacked Labour for too much regulation!?!?

Really!?!?

Adam Penny

The Tories were pushing financial sector deregulation in the 80's and 90's. Financial services regulation was a total non-issue from 1997 to 2008 since the Labour party were content with the situation.

William Macdonald 

‎"There was no advocation of further deregulation after the 2008 crash by anybody"

"Financial services regulation was a total non-issue from 1997 to 2008 since the Labour party were content with the situation."

Which is it Adam even you seem to have confuzzled yourself lol

Adam Penny

There's no inconsistency between those two statements. There wasn't any debate between parties going on about financial services regulation going on during Labour's tenure and nobody was advocating further deregulation after the 2008 crash. You see? They work as part of the same sentence! :-)

William Macdonald

oh good grief.

you claim there was no FURTHER advocating of deregulation therefore prior to 2008 there were!

whereas the second statement claims it wasnt an issue between 97 and 08 , they are completely opposite of one another

Adam Penny

Meh, wrong word, that's all.

William Macdonald

ok you've worn me out I cant do anymore.

I need me bed have to work tomorrow.

i stand by my original statement hypocrit and too weak to apologise!

William Macdonald

g'nite and cheers for the debate.

Adam Penny

lol, fair dinkum. Sleep well!

Always a pleasure, Will.