English students 'to pay up to £36,000 to study in Scotland' - 29th June 2011

Politics UK
English students face paying up to £36,000 to attend Scottish universities, it emerged today, even though local undergraduates will study for free.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8606470/English-students-to-pay-up-to-36000-to-study-in-Scotland.html
Is this fair?

J.M.C.

seams so to me.

C.F.

yes its fair ,why should scotland subsidise english students

S.S.

No its not.

C.F.

why is it not S.S?

S.L.

Depends what you mean by fair. It is perfectly right that the Scots choose how much they charge for tuition fees. However, it is not fair that the English cannot choose how much we charge.

S.F.

Because it's racist C.F.. Next?

B.H.

Careful C.F., your anglophobia is showing. Why should English LA's subsidise Scottish down and outs if it comes to that?

C.F.

we have a different education system ,scots would have to pay in england ,it is niether racist or anglophobic get a grip

S.O.

That's the same cost as it is to English students studying at English Universities, albeit with an extra year appended.

Quite obviously, to have such differentials across the UK is just asking for trouble.

A.W.

I think this is fantastic.

Scots are getting no tuition fees but are charging "foreigners" to make up the difference.

Brilliant idea Mr Salmond.(TBH Don't undersatnd why England doesn't do the Same, but he ho)

C.F.

of course its brilliant

A.H.

Why don't we just do the same for English universities? If they wanna be awkward, we'll play them at their own game.

A.W.

I can't see whats the fuss is about C.F. TBH.

C.F.

neither can i it is hardly scotlands fault westminster have different priorities

A.W.‎

@Alex..why don't you?

I would not have a problem with that one little bit. I wouldn't expect a free education in another country, I would eexpect to pay.

C.F.

as would i

C.F.

holyroods first obligation is to the scots

A.W.

Blame the Scots because of Westminster choices.

First it was presciption fees,

then free elderly care,

and now free tuition fees.

Good Givernance by a Government that cares for the people not the £££

Max Colgan

is the number of engiish students going to make up the difference though? i dont think it will

B.H.

If the Scots wish to be independent, why don't they have the guts to go through with it, instead of wanting a quasi-independence: self rule but subsidised by English cash?

A.W.

It will help. Rather than the the poorest not being able to fufill their potential.

And despite what the Telegraph report, EU students will pay as well.

A.W.‎

"self rule but subsidised by English cash?"

Now that is not totally true Barry...

C.F.

B.H.are you living in outer mongolia ............we are having a referendum .in the 2nd part of the parliment

B.H.

Yes, C.F. and I can guess the result now.

S.C.

I 'm English ( Not just British ) and I don't see the problem with the Scots charging as they see fit , it is their country and they should be able to do things their way , they are sorting their priorities out. They have a leader that puts them first. What is annoying however is they cannot charge students from all the rest of the EU because of EU legislation...................would somebody please just shoot it

A.H.

Although, i'm a strong believer in abolishment of tuition fees so this was just a knee jerk reaction ;) lol

C.F.

as far as im aware S.C.there are moves being made in this direction

J.M.C.

ok for the mindless morons on here. scottish students studying in england would pay the market rate at english universities. This is the result of coalition policy not scottidh policy. It only applies to english student as education is a devolved matter in scotland wales and northern ireland. The goverments there choose to contribute to student fees. Under eu law a counrty can not charge eu students more than they would charge there own students. SO a french student attending oxford would pay 9k attending scottish university they would pay nothing. I hope the explination doesnt tax your brain to much

S.L.

England cannot just "do the same", as England does not have a parliament to take that action.

A.W.‎

>http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2011/06/22104419<

“Scotland contributed 9.4 per cent of UK public sector revenue and received 9.3 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure, including a per capita share of UK debt interest payments.”

J.M.C. ‎

@ B.H.scotland contriubtes 10% of the tax and has 5% of the population

C.F.

and B.H.i resent being callad anglophobic .

J.M.C. ‎

@ S.C.its eu law

A.W.

Very good point Stephen.

Scots student would have to pay if studying in England.

As I said before, I really can't see the problem with this..unless you read the Daily mail and say phrases such as "benefit scroungers" on a daily basis...

S.O.

As a Scott, do I qualify for a gratis Scottish education?

J.M.C.

heres the link

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/jan/13/european-student-numbers-soar-scotland

B.H.

Yes Alan, but can Scotland reasonably lay claim to the entire mineral wealth in the North Sea? I also wonder how many large businesses would exit were Scotland to become fully independent?

C.F.

unfortunatly not scott to many t lol

B.H.

Resent it all you like C.F., but your support for educational discrimination against the English smacks of anglophobia to me.

C.F.

very few i would imagine B.H.why would they ,and why are the english obssesed with the mineral wealth .scared the rest of the uk will be skint when we leave

J.M.C.

your a moron S.C.ive explained already in my earlier post either that or a troll. It even says so if you read between the lines on the torygraph website.

B.H.

Seems that the Scots are obsessed with it C.F.. Without claiming it all, they wouldn't have a pot to p**s in.

C.F.

no your westminster goverment discriminates against students whgo cant afford to pay ,ours doesnt ,lay they blame at wastemonger

C.F.

you wouldnt know an anglophobe if it hit you over the head with a claymore imo

J.M.C.

large business exiting scotland if scotland went independent? You would have a huge influx of business into scotland as economic policy would be decided in scotland and not to benifit the home counties

B.H.

Do they? Fees are not paid on entry but recouped via subsequent earnings. If such earnings do not materialise, the debt isn't paid.

E.L.

Scotland rhinks its fine for England to subsidise them but not vice versa. Wow the myth is true. Scots are tight!

J.M.C.

thats what i said S.C.they would pay the same as english students

C.F.

no B.H.you brought the elephant into the room not i .and what diffrence will it make to you if we dont have a pot to piss in .none

C.F.

england does not subsidis scotland change the record its wearing thin now

J.M.C.

the point in that you cant charge eu students more than you charge local students.English students do not count is a eu students in scotland as the uk has education developed within the constistutent parts of the uk.

C.F.

wee bit antiscot stereotyping going on there E.L.,

J.M.C.

So eu students under the new rules pay 9 grand a year to go to oxford but zero to go the standrews

B.H.

Well if we don't, why don't the Scots have the guts to go for all-out independence, if it isn't economic insecurity?

C.F.

i think i have already pointed out we will be having a referendum ,what part dont you understand

C.F.

the scots have no insecurities B.H.we leave that to our english friends ,

C.F.

with our nation or our finances

C.F.

i will bet though B.H.you were in full agreement with wastemonger charging student fees

B.H.

You may be having a referendum, but I can tell you now that the result will be an overwhelming NO to full independence, as all opinion polls indicate <http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/3570>

B.H.

Well C.F., I can say that most Scots on here have a masive chip on their shoulders. Its always about them and us and never 'we'.

J.M.C.

the basic point is that the tory graph and the various right wing press were and are completly against devolution as they are unionist and reactionary in there outlook. The point is that its a totally scizophrenic point of view. They bleat about statism but what could be more statist than the current constitutional arrangment. By the way the im not scotish so i have no vested interest

C.F.

and how many scots do you know on here then,and of course its about us why wouldnt it be we are a country in our own right .and emma our independence has got nothing to do with you. you have no say

J.M.C.

B.H.i see you were or are a tax inspector whats your opinion on vodaphone and the level of corprate tax avoidance evasion.

A.W.

Wow Barry, I certainly do not thinnk that C.F. has a chip on her shoulder. She is definately not an anglophile. Name calling is boring..ans so last year :-p

This just reinforces how badly the English are treated by their own Govt. You shouldn't stand up for it.

S.F.

Fantastic, my daughters can go to secondary school in France and then go to St Andrews uni for freeeee!!! (don't shoot me yet!)

C.F.

LOL S.F.the auld alliance lives on

S.F.

And then I can visit them and retire in Scotland?! Settled!

K.L.M.

Don't Scots get free prescriptions subsidised by the English? Whereas the English have to pay for their own? Just asking?

C.F.

do you think there is enough of us on here to open a chippy lol

A.W.
<have you been to Scotland B4 S/F.?>

29 June at 19:22 · Like

A.W.‎

@Karen,

No, that is incorrect.

C.F.

no K.L.M.the scots get free prescriptions subsidised by the scots nothing to do with england

S.C.

Stehen Glynn... i have spent a while looking for the link you wanted but can't find it . Whithin the EU national areas can disciminate on charges if they want but NOT to other EU countries. That is not what it says exactly but in general terms this is correct. This point has also been picked up by the national news. Scottish parliament is debating this issue and will be voting on it I think within the next two days because they want to charge other EU country students as well..........I have a growing admiration for Alex Salmon, I do so wish David Cameron had as much respect for English people's points of view and I am a Tory supporter !!

A.W.‎

@Karen,

Here is a post that I wrote earlier,

"Blame the Scots because of Westminster choices.

First it was presciption fees,

then free elderly care,

and now free tuition fees.

Good Givernance by a Government that cares for the people not the £££"

If you have a problem with paying for your presciption, take it up with your MP. Don't blame the Scots for taking a decision which you disagree with.

S.F.

Alex salmon is a lefty, isn't he? So how come you admire him S.C.Caufield?

C.F.

S.C.alex salmond thinks first last and always about whats right for scotland and her people .if only england had such a champion

S.F.

Why do English keep voting for neo-liberal policies and then get envious of 'socialist' Scotland?!lol

C.F.

you couldnt make it up S.F.they dont have it so they think we shouldnt get it

A.W.

Salmond a right winger..Im sure he was..

While the SNP are a centre left party.

C.F.

and im called an anglophobe lol

S.F.

Was he a right winger really? I am not too aware of scotland politics to be honest, just know some Scotts who are lefties and all voted SNP so I assumed... ...

C.F.

thats the thing about the snp many different political points of view coming together for the greater good of our country

S.F.

That's interesting, and they manage to cooperate well whilst having different values? A lot to learn from then!!

K.L.M.‎

@Alan, who said I blame the Scots?

S.F.

I need to research the subject a bit!

C.F.

you dont blame us i dont think but you assume england pays for it, they DONT

S.L.

England does not have a parliament or an executive to make decisions for England, so always gets a raw deal in the UK.

A.W.

Its a little bit more complex , SoFi.

Alex Salmond is a once in a generation politician.

He has a vision for Scotland that he shares with the SNP. Independence.

When/if Scotland became independent, the SNP would split into the "left" SNP and the "right" SNP. But at the moment they have focus and direction.

Im not a Nationalist, but Salmond has nearly convinced me.

Is this what its like having a Govrnment that cares for the population? Because I prefer the SNPs approach more than the Westminster approach.

K.L.M.

http://i.walletpop.co.uk/index.php?date=2011%2F03%2F03&slug=prescriptions-free-in-scotland-whos-footing-the-bill&a=show-post&commentspage&v=main

This article says that English will effectively subsidise it...

"And it's presciption charges in England which will effectively be subsidising the freebies across the border. If everyone is paying for the NHS, then is it fair that they should be discriminated against purely on the grounds of geography?"

So this is incorrect?

I.J.

If this was any other group in society it would be branded RACIST.

Shame on the UK Government and the Scottish Government for allowing those from England to be treated so poorly

A.W.‎

" England does not have a parliament or an executive to make decisions for England, so always gets a raw deal in the UK."

And whos fault is that? You had a chance for regional assemblies but voted against it.

And think of the centuries when Scotland and Wales din't " have a parliament or an executive". Don't remember any complaints then?

C.F.

SIMON it is for the people of england to attain their own parliment .and lets not talk about raw deals .the 4 corners of the uk get a raw deal whilst london is feted

A.W.‎

@Ian...?why?

K.L.M.

No I don't just assume, I think I heard it on the news....

C.F.

how in the name o the wee man is it racist

I.J.

Absolutely right Simon the English have no independent voice and it's a disgrace.

If Cameron ever grew a pair he would restrict voting on English only matters to MPs from English constituencies and would charge students from Scotland more to study in England.

A.W.‎

@Karen,

>>http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2011/06/22104419<

>Scotland contributed 9.4 per cent of UK public sector revenue and received 9.3 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure, including a per capita share of UK debt interest payments.<

M.H.G.

Westminster has imposed its ways over Scotland for centuries, I didn't see the English complaining then. If Scotland wants her independence, good luck to her and what has it got to do with anyone else anyway? Is it because the English have so little national identity, they are frightened to stand alone?

C.F.

the snp is probably the most inclusive party in the uk

A.W.

I believe the Scotish Government over Jo Robinson(??)

K.L.M.

Well anyway, Salmond wants more migrants so I think I'll move to bonnie Scotland 8-)

A.W.

Ian, Why is it RACIST?

C.F.

lol K.L.M.think we will have an influx of people wanting to come

I.J.

C.F. England does pay for free tuition fees in Scotland by way if the Consolidated Block Grant.

Within the so-called Union it's the only country that puts more in than it gets back when comparing public expenditure to tax raised per head of population.

A.W.

the more the merrier Karen. :-)

S.C.

Because S.F.he is doing what the Scots want. I'm more right wing than Hitler and anything leftish gives me a rash ....... But hell S.F.a politician that actually does do what he hears people saying !!!I don't agree with everything he does S.F.but his reasons for doing so are because he hears what people say and what they want. If Cameron was even a tad like Salmon we would have a vote on Europe, we would cancel the human ( read non -human ) rights bill, send serious criminals back to their own countries............and so much more ... It's called being elected to do what the electorate want, we in England have never had a Prime Minister like that.........That S.F.is why I have a sneaking admiration for him.

C.F.

no ian we get pocket money backl from wastemonger

C.F.

but never fear it will end soon with independence then you will have noone to blame for spending YOUR money except yourselves

M.H.G.

Who spent North Sea Oil money??

A.W.
This is what Government should be doing, listening to the people. Putting the interest of the population before other interests.

In this specific case, it has to be asked if Salmond IS playing politics. He knew that this would be the reaction from the media. Its win/win for him. The Scots ♥ him while the "establishment" hate him.

C.F.

think that was wastemonger

M.H.G.

Sorry, who wasted North Sea oil revenues?

C.F.

wastemonger

M.H.G.

Well it was not the Scots!

S.C.

I did

C.F.

M.H.G.have a look at the mccrone report that was hidden from scotland for 30yrs

C.F.

Interesting read stephen

A.W.‎>http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/how-black-gold-was-hijacked-north-sea-oil-and-the-betrayal-of-scotland-518697.html<

A.W.‎
>http://www.oilofscotland.org/mccronereport.pdf<

C.F.

thankfully when the SNP realised what they were trying to do to the sea bounderies they put a motion before strasbourg disputing it in the event of independence wastemonger wont have a leg to stand on

I.J.

Marie North Seal Oil Revenue is a red herring. Thus revenue is dwarfed by the money Scotland receives from Westminster via the Block Grant (£4B versus circa £17B)

And what about the City of London are we equally arguing that revenue from it should stay in England?

A.W.

Yes Oil is an irrelevence

"An independent Scotland's budget surpluses as a result of the oil boom, wrote Professor McCrone, would be so large as to be "embarrassing".

Scotland's currency "would become the hardest in Europe, with the exception perhaps of the Norwegian Kronor." From being poorer than their southern neighbours, Scots would quite possibly become richer. Scotland would be in a position to lend heavily to England and "this situation could last for a very long time into the future.""..

A.W.

If Scotland revenue remained in Scotland, I can see no problem with City of London revenue staying in England.

K.L.M.

Why Alan? Lol. I'm coming to stay with you anyway, so you can make it up to me, he he he ;-)

M.H.G.

A.W.has answered your question Ian.

C.F.

haha karen

K.L.M.

And you C.F., do you have a spare room? Lol. Scotland's gonna be the place to be for the future ;-)

I.J.

Yes Marie and if that happened how would Scotland then fund free tuition fees. The City of London revenue dwarfs that from North Sea Oil!

A.W.

hehe Karen.

Well let London Go independent then Ian if they are getting such a hard deal..

I am sure the Scots would survive

>>http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2011/06/22104419<

>Scotland contributed 9.4 per cent of UK public sector revenue and received 9.3 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure, including a per capita share of UK debt interest payments.<.

I.J.

As for the point about racism and discrimination. Substitute the words English and Scottish for say black and White or gay and straight and it become clearer.

The Scottish government is discriminating against English Students

M.O.

Phew, now that was long and I only read half of it! Anyway for those who disagree with the principal of politicians ensuring that the will of the people is paramount, well what can i say? Green eyed little guy? Oh for an English party so dedicated to the electorate. Good on Scotland!

C.F.

get a grip ian

A.W.

Seriously Iain?

M.H.G.

The English have discriminated against the Scots for long enough Ian!! If Scottish students have to pay to study in England then how can English students be discriminated against when studying in Scotland?

A.W.

Is it racist that non EU residents have to pay a higher rate than Eu residents in tuition fees.

Is it racist that non uk residents can not stand for Parliament.

A.W.
I do not believe in for one minute this legislation is racist in anyway whatsoever.

A.C.M.

You know what I find incredibly amusing the fact that the SNPS Minister for Education is actually English. Now I am no fan of the SNP but they are not anglophobic and how they chose to govern on devolved issues is none of the English's business. However I personally am in favour of all University students making a contribution.

A.P.

Free prescriptions,free elderly care,free universities Scotland im on my way..

A.W.

You are more than welcome Andy.

I'll even buy you a pint!

A.P.

Wish I could repay the favor Al,but living in England now with an ultra Right wing fascist regime in power i no longer have any quality of life,im just working to pay the bills and thats about it..good luck to all you Scots anyway in your independance quest..

J.W.

the only way around this is to go and live in scotland if you want to go to university

J.W.

if you have a bright kid and think he or she will want to go to university why dont you move there it looks to me scotty cares about its people more than the English do

I.J.

J.W.its easy for a country within the so-called Union to help it's population be it with tuition fees or healthcare etc if you get a disproportionate slice of the public purse.

Look at the figures for public expenditure per head of population and its fairly transparent as to why our Celtic cousins can provide things people living in England can only dream of.

I.J.

Would it therefore be acceptable for English Universities to charge students from Scotland more to study than students from England?

I.J.

Discrimination = charging students from England more than students from Scotland when studying in Scotland.

I repeat if this was any other group in society there would, quite rightly, be uproar.

I would call on an SNP Government to do away with this discrimination and show leadership that the British Unionist parties are lacking.

30 June at 08:29 · Like

I.J.

Marie the brave heart stuff is all very well but please come on ......

Ordinary Scots, Welsh and English people have historically been done over by various British Unionist Governments so make it a Scottish English issue is plain wrong.

C.F.

IAN look to westminster to blame not scotland ,if your goverment cares less about the education of their youth ,that is not scotlands fault .and we are not sibsidised by england ,stop being so selective with your figures

C.F.

and i think you will find london gets more than anywhere else

M.H.G.

For God Sake everybody, The English don't have to go to A Scottish university, there are enough of them in England!

C.F.

and lets face it M.H.G.if they want to study in gods country then they should pay for the privlige .they wouldnt expect a free education in the states so why do they think they have a right to it free in scotland ,

M.H.G.

Most of the EU countries charge NO or very SMALL fees for entrance to university, England , a class ridden society, has decided to charge massive fees so it's a no brainer why her students should be charged more than anybody else. Stop whingeing English , you are not being discriminated against although you certainly have done a lot of discrimination in your time!

S.L.

Marie - England has decided nothing. England does not have a parliament so cannot choose anything. The UK has chosen for us.

A.W.‎

@Simon,

England rejected regional assemblies Simon. No point complaining you haven't got a voice when the population showed it was happy with Cental Control from Westminster.

C.F.

Im still trying to work out what this whining is all about ,im assuming that a lot of the moaning is from people who VOTED for this goverment ,and maybe even agree with students paying fees ,now they object because cotland caring more about our countrys abolished them .i think they dont want free education in the rest of the uk ,so dont want scotland to have it either

I.J.

C.F. check your facts London receives amongst the lowest public expenditure per head of population despite being the biggest wealth creator (and no I'm not a Londoner but from the Midlands).

I.J.

A.W.regional assemblies were rejected as they were a Liberal and Labour attempt to undermine the very idea of an English national identity (implied by Charles Kennedy at the time).

C.F. I'm not whinging about Scotland I whole heartedly support the SNP. I agree the blame for the mistreatment of England lies fairly and squarely with British Unionist parties. My complaint about the Scottish Government is that previously the SNP were the one party condemning the discrimination against English students when attending Scottish Universities.

I.J.

Marie your comments simply smack of anti English diatribe and are not worthy of response.

You've clearly watched Brave Heart one or two many times.

Blaming everything on England! Priceless! Does the expression chip on your shoulder mean anything?

D.M.

If England introduced higher tuition fees for people moving to their country in order to save thousands of uni place's for English people and stop thousands of people moving to their country just to take advantage of their lower tuition fees, would that be such a problem?

I.J.

No D.M. but it would probably break some EU rule

A.W.‎

@Ian,

"London receives amongst the lowest public expenditure per head of population."

This dude think differently>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Gy7f8vP2QY<

This video is so funny. Paxman being his usual smarmy self until the Welsh dud kicks him bum!!

Ian, for all my laughing and joking about this, I do think this is extremely unfair and pretty much nonsensical.

If Scottish & EU student don't have to pay, why should English students pay? ( And why do the rules apply to all EU students except English? Is England no longer in the EU?)

How much does Scotland receive from English students, is it really worth it? No unless it was for political reasons..

Topics like this usually turn into a England/Scotland argument. And that is just one big white elephant in the room.....

Just wanna add, C.F.We're missing you :-p